评论来自 398896

Very nice tanking bracers :) Will be perfect when they've been reforged with some Mastery :)

评论来自 Palafied

Yeah, who needs expertise anyway?

评论来自 731189

The lack of a mastery makes me want to pass these over, and instead use Heroic Alpha Bracers from H: HoO. Although the Alpha Bracers lack avoidance stats, they come with 112 mastery, a yellow socket, and a +10 mastery socket bonus. Seems like a great choice if you want to max block as a Tankadin.

评论来自 Saldor

If the big deal is really the expertise, why not just reforge it for mastery - nearly the same effect, but get get a truck load of dodge as well.

评论来自 750367

Tankadins will overlook this because of the lack of mastery, but we need expertise too, and this has lots. Just remember that diminishing returns on dodge/parry sucks now, so reforge the dodge into mastery and use this piece for the expertise softcap, plus have an epic!

If you've managed to get to the exp. softcap without these, THEN grab the Heroic Alpha Bracers and stack on mastery

I hope that's right =o

评论来自 scr00chy

And for those wondering, our taunts have changed so that they will never miss.

That's incorrect. Nothing has changed about the way taunts work. The reason why your taunts never miss is simple. Let me explain.

Taunt is considered a spell and as with any other spell, to ensure it never misses you need 6% SPELL hit chance for heroic bosses and 17% for raid bosses. We have Touched by the Light now which gives us free 6% spell hit. It's there to ensure that we're at the spell hit cap for taunts when we hit cap our melee attacks. You need 8% hit chance for melee attacks to be capped and the amount of hit rating needed to reach that cap gets you to 11% spell hit. Therefore, with the extra 6% from our passive, we're at 17% and our taunts will never miss even in raids.

Your taunts aren't missing right now because you're not raiding yet so you're spell hit capped just from the passive bonus. You would be capped even with 0 hit rating. Of course, once you enter raids, you'll be short of hit rating and your taunts WILL miss.

In WOTLK, we used to have to use a glyph to make sure our taunts would never miss. But even then it only added enough spell hit so that we'd be capped only if we were also melee hit capped. All they did in Cataclysm is that they removed the need for us to use a glyph and they gave us the passive bonus that comes with choosing Protection spec.

评论来自 bodaxinho

Don't forget that these bracers just require you to be exalted ;) which is fairly easy through championing whilst the Alpha do require the luck to drop and win the roll which it's not always that easy.

评论来自 thesandman87

ill stick with trebrorious's rotating bands for my tankdin

评论来自 Hemingray

These seem to be a fairly decent upgrade even for ret. They're roughly comparable to Heroic Alpha Bracers, and they certainly beat out the PvP Bloodied Pyrium Bracers. I'd rather take a slight hit in strength and have a stat useful against PvE (reforge dodge -> hit/crit/haste) than have a completely wasted stat (resilience), which can't be reforged.

Once you hit exalted with the Ramkahen, you may as well grab these along with the Gift of Nadun until you find something better.

评论来自 rnbw

You apparently have no idea what you're talking about, and are using outdated information. In Cataclysm all taunts from all classes are unable to miss. They will simply always work. Possibly (probably) because they're so important.

The +spell hit that paladins get is because otherwise it would be unfair for them that many of their abilities are spells. For example all of a warrior's abilities are just melee/physical attacks, so bound to the melee hit cap. A lot of paladin's abilities are spells, so they would have extra miss chance (the spell hit cap being higher than the melee hit cap). Therefore we have talents to lower the spell hit rating required. When we cap the melee hit cap now, we also cap the spell hit cap because of the talent.

Get your facts straight before posting something. :)

评论来自 rnbw

Even though mastery is a very good stat now, you should not sacrifice everything else just for mastery. It's good, but it still doesn't trump everything. For example compare a fictional item with 1% dodge and 200 stamina to an item with nothing but 2% block through mastery. You could say the second one is better because of the mastery, but that's definitely not true. The combined stats of the first are better than the stats of the other.

You have to keep in mind that this item is both a higher item and an epic, so it has a way higher stat budget than a level 346 blue item. Now there are other cases where a lower level blue item is better than a higher level epic due to itemization but in this case that might not be true.

Let's reforge both items and compare the stats. Obviously we'll reforge the expertise into mastery, and reforge the hit into dodge (so it's more easily compare to this item; if you have higher dodge than parry, reforge it into parry).

We have to keep in mind that stamina is still king though. Even though mastery is extremely good right now, stamina is still the best stat. That's why we'll socket a stamina/mastery gem.

-4 stamina
-56 armor
-151 dodge rating
-67 expertise rating
+12 strength
+98 mastery rating
+55 hit rating

Even though the Alpha Bracers have more mastery than the Sandguard Bracers, you can clearly see that the Sandguard Bracers still win in the comparison. Yes, it gives a little bit of block, which is nice, but it loses out on dodge, stamina and armor, three also highly appreciated stats. Furthermore, even though threat is not a problem, it still gives better threat through the expertise (below cap, which you will be) than the hit and strength.

In the end, compare each item well. Don't go for mastery blindly. It's a good stat, but in a comparison like this don't look just at mastery but put all stats against eachother to make an educated decision.

Edit: why rate me down? If you're going to downrate me, please at least specify why or what is wrong with my post. Thanks.

Edit2, @below: stamina is still king in many cases. We don't want to stack stamina, because it isn't as good any more at a certain point. You'll survive all melee and magical hits and healers will have enough time to heal you up before you're going to die. For physical damage mitigation, mastery is way better. However, if you're looking at the stat priorities and weight scales put up on forums like Elitist Jerks, stamina still gets more points than mastery.

Just think about it this way: with no stamina but with mastery, will you live? With no mastery and stamina, will you live? In the end, you shouldn't stack one or the other, but have a good balance between them. I'd have to agree though that I'm noticing that I stack more mastery now (so a +40 mastery gem in a yellow socket) simply because I'm not close to dying in the content I'm currently at. But in heroic raids with harder bosses and more magical damage, the stamina is still very important.

评论来自 rnbw

I hate inaccurate information, so I'll just correct you there. At the time of writing, no shield tanks (warriors and paladins) have to worry about threat stats like expertise, hit and strength. We only want to worry about avoidance stats. Our stat priority goes something like this: stamina > mastery > dodge/parry > expertise > hit > strength. Keep this in mind while reforging. So because this item has expertise and dodge, we want to reforge the expertise into mastery (since mastery has a way higher value than expertise, and dodge has a higher value than expertise as well).

Also diminishing returns always suck, but that doesn't mean you should keep away from dodge or parry. You'll still want to grab avoidance where you can if you can't get block. And as is apparent from the stat priority list, block+avoidance is better than block+threat (what you seem to be implying by suggesting to reforge the dodge into mastery and leaving the expertise on).

评论来自 195289

Not quite... We tankadins should reforge both hit and expertise into mastery > dodge/parry. Then reforge dodge/parry, whichever is highest, into mastery because of DR's. We have NO problem at this point in to holding threat with little to no hit/expertise; my armoury for reference (~81.5% self-buffed avoidance, 12 expertise w/ SoT & 2.14% hit)... And for those wondering, our taunts have changed so that they will never miss.

At least for the moment, avoidance > hit/expertise.

No he is correct, Paladins will turn the dodge into mastery. Taking a quote from Maintankadin forums:

Excessive threat is not necessary on survivability gear, but the best option depends on the ratios of the avoidance and threat stats. If the point value of the threat stat is at least 60% that of the avoidance stat, you'll gain the most overall avoidance + block by reforging the threat stat.

Example: A piece has 100 of either dodge or parry rating. If the piece has 60 or more hit or expertise rating, it's better to reforge the hit or expertise rating into mastery. If the piece has less than 60 hit or expertise rating, it's better to reforge the dodge or parry rating into mastery.

60% of 190 is 114. The expertise on these bracers, though close to it, do not reach this threshold. If you wanted to absolutely maximize the amount of damage you ignore, sure you'd reforge the expertise, but generally speaking a Paladin will reforge the dodge into mastery instead.

评论来自 Jeerath

The expertise on above things make them, as well as Alpha Bracers (because of the hit), inferior to Shackles of Undeath in my eyes, at least for my Blood Death Knight. Can't believe no one actually linked these awesome shackles yet.

评论来自 815548

I play as frost DK and as offspecc PvP blood. Is these bracers good if i reforge the dodge to haste or any other usefull stat (better than bloodthirsty at least)? i Know the neck is better than mine but I wonder if this one is as well.

PS: I am thinking of becomming tank now again in cata (used to be frost tank). Anyone knows a good website for tactics I would love to hear it.
Dragerik of Blade's Edge

评论来自 durok

Compared with the Zul'Aman bracers (Amani Armguards), the Sandguard Bracers have 16 more Stamina, 26 Armor, 58 Dodge and 12 more Expertise.
I suggest you just go to Zul'Aman for other stuff (List of Zul'Aman Tanking Gear) and grind reputation for Ramkahen, might they not drop.

评论来自 lorgon

Stamina is one of those hard things to quantify, but it is certainly not "king." The main purpose of stamina is to be able to absorb damage spikes without getting killed. It's hard to quantify the size of damage spikes because it depends on the fight, as well as which cooldowns you have available, and to some degree what is happening to the healer and the rest of the raid, but for the most part you can absorb them with just the health provided with unmodified tanking gear. Extra stamina provides a bit of an extra buffer, but it's a "nice to have" rather than a "must have".

When comparing gear, you look at a few factors independently:

Damage Mitigation: dodge, parry, and mastery (and armor). With a big enough hit point buffer, these are the most important in terms of survivability (assuming a healer with a finite mana supply and hps throughput). Of these, mastery is clearly the most beneficial on a point-for-point basis (for pallys and warriors, at least, and I suspect for bears and dk's as well).
Health (ability to absorb damage spikes): Stamina
Threat: primarily hit and expertise, although stamina has a minor role due to vengeance (10% of health goes to Attack Power). Strength has a minor role also.

Since threat isn't an issue due to vengeance (except perhaps at the beginning of the pull), and you'll have enough health without doing anything special, most tanks prioritize damage mitigation above all else.

For example, if you wanted to compare these bracers with the Alpha Bracers, you'd start with damage mitigation. Doing a proper comparison, arbitrarily assuming a paladin with 1500 dodge and parry, 2500 mastery, and 33000 armor without any bracers, you get:

Alpha Bracers:
Dodge: 1536 (assuming 36 pts reforged from hit) -- 12.08% dodge
Parry 1537 (from the 25% strength bonus) -- 12.99% parry
Mastery: 2662 (assuming +40 mastery gem and +10 socket bonus) -- 56.41% block
Armor: 34443 -- 56.92% damage reduction
Total mitigation: 77.44% of total physical damage absorbed/avoided

These bracers:
Dodge: 1690 -- 12.77% dodge
Parry: 1534 (from 25% str bonus) -- 12.98% parry
Mastery: 2544 (assuming 44 pts reforged from expertise) -- 54.93% block
Armor: 34499 -- 56.96% damage reduction
Total mitigation: 77.50% of total physical damage absorbed/avoided

So they're pretty close in terms of mitigation - about a 0.06% difference in terms of total physical damage taken - with these bracers being marginally better. Of course, these bracers are also better for threat and provide the extra stamina buffer, so in this case the choice is pretty clear.

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