评论来自 591747

So, 10 man raiding=258 item and 25 man raiding=271 item?

评论来自 308358

I see several people forget or are not aware of the fact that Armor Penetration is 2nd highest stat for Unholy/sub-blood and 3rd for Unholy/sub-frost after reaching main-hand hit cap.

Even to this day I see people state on different forums, or ingame chat, that ArP is one of the least beneficial stat for unholy DK. This isn't only inaccurate, its just misleading and false information.
Many still believe ArP to be a warrior, MM hunter or blood DK stat (usual the feral dps druid is forgotten as well).

For more info, please visit http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-unholy_dps_3_3_5_cataclysm_naturally/

This trinket and/or its ilvl 284 equivalent will be BiS for any DK dps build combined up with DBW hm version.

评论来自 Rilgon

I'll go on to say that there are more trinkets with ArP then not

Do you just mean this raid tier? Because if not, that's such a ridiculously erroneous statement.

And the only class that could reliably make the argument that ArPen is bad for them is Enhancement Shaman and Mutilate Rogues. Even Retribution Paladins have a very sizeable amount of pure physical damage, especially once they go 2p T10 and have a dramatic upswing in Divine Storm's contribution as a percentage of total DPS.

ArPen is significantly better for a Ret Paladin than Haste is for any spec of Hunter (read: Haste is worse than INTELLECT for Hunters).

评论来自 Typhron

Do you just mean this raid tier?

In general, actually. When Blizzard has added trinkets that are rather accessible, although having an asinine drop rate, they've had ArP on them. Compounding this with other trinkets from raid content (which is pretty even) and you get the imbalance I'm implying. The current raid tier isn't so bad.

Even Retribution Paladins have a very sizeable amount of pure physical damage, especially once they go 2p T10 and have a dramatic upswing in Divine Storm's contribution as a percentage of total DPS.

Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, and a paladin's auto-attack is not all a retter does. Because of that most of the bonus from ArP goes unnoticed and is unwarranted. At least if you're reading a guide like this one.

The Tier 10 2 piece bonus is both effective and fun ('fun' meaning AMAZING & AWESOME and WHY ISN'T THIS A FEATURE) but it doesn't make a Ret stack ArP to make their Divine Storms hit harder (mong other things). It's like, as you say, a MM Hunter stacking Haste. The same points could be allocated to another stat for greater effect due to poor scaling.

We won't go into Enhancement Shamans and ArP. The short version of that conversation would be "WHAT DO"

Sadly, if they added a stat that everyone could use (I'm looking at you Critical Strike Rating) it would just be Whispering Fanged Skull 1.1. Which is why it is still a good, if not class situational, trinket.

评论来自 InorganicMatter

Hello Armor Pen hard cap!

(Also, inb4 Blizz announces a melee trinket catering to the QQ'ing pallies/shaman/mut.rogues.)

评论来自 126811

this will be just like 死神的意志, everyone will roll on it.

评论来自 Drague

As a combat rogue, this trinket is truely a beast! Combine it with 死神的意志 and you got yourself one hardhitting #$%^tail of trinkets. Perhaps it will be possible to reach hard cap with armor pen with this thing :)

评论来自 532081

You'll probably see this ninja'd so many times.. just like dbw.

评论来自 549667

Wow, I so want to wear this with DBW for harcap ArP on my kitty, can't wait to get rid of herkuml anyway.

This is an astounding trinket, and while i'm sorry to the classes that can't use ArP, the only ones that really suffer, as said above, are enhancement and mut, which both LOVE haste, and herkuml is the easiest high ilvl melee trinket to get, so it may not be totally fair, but there's definitely some balance. also, both of those classes are likely to get stuck with a hit or exp trinket in their second slot due to their high requirement and benefit of those stats.

评论来自 491780

Will be nice to be able to gem agility again as an MM hunter, using this and DBW, in before the dps.

评论来自 606298

Warriors will drool over this as they drool over deathbringer's will. because the proc is insane, and fits perfectly by DBW, they can drop 8 arp gems for str gems. more than worth it to get for a warrior

评论来自 butcher098

stats wise it just seems to be a colossal upgrade of Banner of Victory from reg ToC, pretty much same concept. Basic stat is armor pen, chance on hit increases Attack Power for 15seconds.

评论来自 79984

ArPen is significantly better for a Ret Paladin than Haste is for any spec of Hunter (read: Haste is worse than INTELLECT for Hunters).

At a certain point with high-end marks gear, 1 haste actually becomes better than both 1 int and 1 attack power. And of course, 1 int is always better than 1 attack power because of Careful Aim.

So in reality, ArP is probably significantly WORSE for a ret pally than haste is for a geared marks hunter.

评论来自 hntd

For lazy people, the proc rate is 35%, the ICD is not yet known.

评论来自 Marmo

Now i can't say nothing more than: WoW... DBW HC + Sharpened Twilight Scale = 330 ArP Rating on equip... For hunt / warr / rogue this will be the best combo trinkets. :)

评论来自 466710

*** If this Proc's like WFS it will definatly be a replacement for some ArP class (my main is a combat rogue) ecspecially for those of us crit capping.
If anyone from PTR has gotten this and taken the time to figure it's proc rate, it would be awsome if you could post something here.

评论来自 607780

Normal STS (ilvl 271)

Proc 1304 AP
164 Arpen

Expected STS (ilvl 284 ?)

Proc 1472 AP according to Item - Chamber of Aspects 25 Heroic Melee Trinket
(1472/1304) x164 = 184,0 Arpen

Thats the expected stat on STS, if my math is right

PS : just can't wait to get the DBW - STS combo on my kitty !

评论来自 Meebo

While it's not the best optimised trinket for some classes the Heroic version of this is an upgrade for Ret Paladins over the aging Death's Choice. Any Ret worth their salt will only bother with the Heroic version; provided they're in a decent raiding guild or has the gold to buy it from one, so expect competition on it alone.

评论来自 Rilgon

So in reality, ArP is probably significantly WORSE for a ret pally than haste is for a geared marks hunter.

The reality in which Haste effects less of our DPS (Auto) than ArPen effects of a Ret's DPS? (Auto, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike)?

评论来自 361624

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that Blizz would introduce a trinket with ArP on it now? They've already stated that ArP will be removed from gear and converted to something else.

Does this mean they are re-thnking the removal of ArP from gear?
Or was this something that they had already designed WAY back before they decided to remove ArP?

Don't get me wrong, it's a sweet trinket, I just think it's strange that an item of this level is being introduced now, only to be edited when Cataclysm comes out.

So I guess my point is that this is a trinket who's value seems like it will decrease rapidly after cata comes out.

评论来自 539416

Just to put another spin on this if it has greater than 45 sec ICD this trinket will be as crap as Needle-Encrusted Scorpion for uptime, and I'll stick with H DBW + H DV (frost dk)

评论来自 498441

This trinket truly is a godsend for MM Hunters... In fact with the gear set I currently have, replacing my other trinket (next to DBW) with this will actually put me well over the ArP cap... That leaves room for itemization in the other areas, making this trinket a bridge, so to speak, to so many new approaches to being a Hunter.

评论来自 534473

This will most likely replace Deathbringer's Will as a BiS trinket for the classes who previously had Deathbringer's Will as the BiS trinket (although using them together will still yield the best results). I am assuming that the ICD is 45 seconds in this calculation, which would make a lot of sense.

Example: Fury warrior, with a 1.2 strength multiplier from berserker stance and a further 1.1 multiplier from BoK.

DB Will - 27% uptime (approx)
600 strength proc (most beneficial proc) = 1584 AP
1584 x 27% = 427.68*

Twilight Shard - 31% uptime (approx)
1304 AP proc
1304 x 31% = 404.24

*However, obviously deathbringer's will procs haste 1/3 of the time, which is not as valuable as strength or crit (we will assume in this calculation that crit has a very similar value to strength for dps increase). If the haste proc is only 90% as valuable as the other two procs and has a 1/3 chance to occur, then the value of the proc should be reduced to 96.6% of the original value, which is

96.6% x 427.68 = 413.14

Pretty close overall. However for fury warriors inparticular the deathbringer will procs are quite well timed with death wish (30 seconds once every 110ish seconds), which may even out the difference. This is still quite a rough calculation of course.

Seems like Paladins will be a little disappointed with the new loot. Out of the five different plate dps viable pieces of loot, four of them have armor penetration on them! It is brilliant for warriors on the other hand, because armor pen capping is a neccesity at higher gear levels and these new loot pieces are an *excellent* way to discard the unwanted haste, hit and expertise rating on ICC gear to give a lot more room for strength and crit gemming instead of armor pen gemming. The heroic version of this trinket alone frees up a whopping 8/9 armor pen gem slots for strength/crit. I played around a bit with the profiler prior to this, and while it was possible to hard cap ArP without using gear below level 270, it meant losing out on many yellow socket bonuses, which is a pain.

The funny thing about the paladin tier 10 2 part set - True, the increased use of divine storm increases the value of ArP, but surely it also increases the value of haste as well, because more haste = more melee attacks = more cooldown resets, although not having a paladin, I'm no expert on this matter.

评论来自 Galbrei

Is it possible to wear that and the heroic version at the same time? If it is, that will pimp my rogue's dps big time!

评论来自 178266

Well, you can only know for sure if it blows something out of the water of perhaps blows itself, when you know the proc rate ...

I'd doubt it extremely that it will be better than the ICC25 trinkets. Especially as Blizzard indicated they wanted it to be on average below ICC levels ...

So first proc results, then we can judge ...

Where are you getting that kind of info from? Blizzard has been repeatedly saying Ruby Sanctum's gear was meant to be Lich King level, nowhere did they say anything about wanting them to be inferior to Icecrown gear.

Furthermore, to the one who said that this trinket is better than the heroic Whispering Fanged Skull for Ret Paladins, a small correction: Either version of this trinket is better than its corresponding version of the Skull, that is, the normal version is superior to the normal WFS but weaker than the heroic version, and the heroic version of the Scale is better than all of them.

评论来自 146856

But u can wear DBW and this together though.

评论来自 623178

The proc is called "Piercing Twilight."

评论来自 620551

Sweet Arp, which will be nice for physical-only class like warrior. (other physical classes too ofc).
And Chance On Hit effect seems pretty good too, and im sure it wont shapeshift u as dbw does.

评论来自 Aevitas

Sadly, if they added a stat that everyone could use (I'm looking at you Critical Strike Rating) it would just be Whispering Fanged Skull 1.1. Which is why it is still a good, if not class situational, trinket.

As long as stats like Armor Penetration and the lot are in, you won't be able to itemize items around all classes and make it a good consideration for all of those classes. For example, as a MM hunter, I wouldn't be fussed if this very trinket came out with passive Critical Strike rating, or Haste. However, an enhancement shaman would be.

My point being is that you still have Whispering Fanged Skull and - although good - is not a perfectly itemized item for hunter and/or combat rogues for example, whilst good voor enhancement shamans.

Diversity is what this game has been lacking, and unification is what it's being stuffed with. I'm actually glad to see diversity in items being back, and although this trinket is from an arguable source, I think this is moving the game in the good direction again. And thank God for that.

评论来自 294219

hehe, Sharpened Twilight Scale indeed.

评论来自 624178

damn! this and DBW from icc = win for my kitty :D

评论来自 wasniahC

I've seen several rundowns of classes here that were all terrible. So I'll give it a shot and see if I can do better.

Warriors, MM hunters, Feral DPS, Combat rogues
These love arpen. Arpen is GODLY for them. This trinket is obscene for these classes.
DK dps
Blood dps isn't reallistically a viable pve spec any more. Frost and unholy both like arpen, now, especially frost. I don't even know why frost likes arpen so much at the moment, but that's what the posts on EJ and the spreadsheets all say. You're using a lot of obliterate, and your autoattacks contribute a fair amount of dps, I suppose. The shadow damage portion of scourge strike now scales with ArPen, too.
In short? Strength still beats arpen for dks, but I don't see a strength trinket about in icc. This is a damn good trinket, for death knights.

Ret palas
Now, they recieve a pretty bad benefit from ArPen. Only about 30-40% of their damage is physical, with the t10 2set taken into account (less, without it). Regardless, this trinket beats all the other options. Death's choice/verdict is the next option after this, and this wins. The other classes benefit more from it. It's still a BiS for ret pala.

Now, muti rogues, I'm not sure on at the moment, so I won't make a claim on them. I suspect it may be, but i could be very wrong on that. It's a tossup between this, WFS, and TAJ.
Enhancement shaman I am fairly sure will find that TAJ/Herkumi war trink beat this, but again, I haven't looked up much on these classes, with regards to this trinket.
Quite frankly, I am not sure how survival hunters stand with trinkets atm, either.

What a lot of people are forgetting, in their "OMG ITS STILL GOOD WITH ARPEN"/"OMG ITS BAD FOR THIS CLASS COS IT SCALES BAD WITH ARPEN" rage, is this.
It isn't just a trinket with passive arpen.
It has a &*!@ing godly procc, as well.

And now to await the downrating and *!@#storm the other breakdowns recieved.

评论来自 Mazra

For the love of god, Blizzard!

First the Banner from a dungeon so horribly outdated now, it's not even fun (nor is the jousting bit in the beginning). Then the NES trinket from a heroic, with a crap drop rate and everyone trying to nick it. Then a trinket from a 25-man raid dungeon, also one everyone is trying to nick. Now another trinket from another 25-man raid boss? A trinket everyone will again ninja?

I've played a Cat Druid since, well, since WotLK was released. I farmed the Banner, without luck. I farmed the NES trinket, without luck. I'm now farming two 25-man trinkets with crap drop rates and everyone rolling on them.

I'm currently using a vendor trinket and a 10-man trinket without ArPen on them, simply because I can't get my hands on any ArPen trinkets.

Sometimes I hate being an ArPen heavy class.

评论来自 1617

The ICD is 45 seconds. Just got the trinket and tested it to confirm. It procs very nicely ^_^

评论来自 Skaoi

Hey,

I was just wondering if anyone can 100% confirm for me whether this trinket shares a proc cd with Whispering Fanged Skull, since they both proc AP? My common sense says they would share it but that's not often the case with trinkets and I'm looking for confirmation.

评论来自 628481

Seems to proc every 30 seconds for me.

评论来自 Nzall

horrible, horrible post.

1)Ret Pala: Strength, Crit, Haste
2)Unholy DK: Strength, Crit, Haste
3)Blood DK: Strength, Crit, Armor Penetration
4)Frost DK: Strength, Crit, Haste/Armor Penetration (depends)
5)Fury/Arms War: Armor Penetration, Strength, Crit
6)MM Hunter: Armor Penetration, Agility, Attack Power
7)Surv Hunter: Haste, Agility, Attack Power
8)Combat Rogue: Armor Penetration, Agility, Attack Power
9)Muti Rogue: Haste, Agility, Attack Power
10Enhance Sham: Haste, Attack Power, Agility
11)Feral Druid: Armor Penetration, Agility, Attack Power

1) ret does not gem haste. haste only is semi-viable to gem if you have tiny abomination in a jar and shadowmourne, and only on single target non movement fights.(i.e. saurfang and festergut)
2) unholy does not gem crit, it prefers to gem haste, especially when you have a frost subspec (which, if you have any ICC gear or T10, you should).
3+4) non-unholy DK's gem STR, unless they can reach the ArP hard cap by gemming ArP.
5)same as non-unholy DK's.
6+7) i believe hunters don't gem AGI, but AP. and survival doesn't gem haste, but rather crit. haste is wasted after the steady shot cap.
10) enhancements don't get agi. in fact, at higher gear levels, it is preferred to gem hit due to crit capping issues (where you have so much crit from gear that you are losing some for misses).
11)AFAIK, feral does not gem AP, but rather AGI (and ArP at higher gear).

评论来自 1upgamer

I hit the ArP cap with this and food. I almost cried. Been trying for so long. MM Hunter.

评论来自 663209

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before but it seems that the trinket procs from your pet's attacks also. I just did Sindragosa today and when I tried to use my ghoul to help break myself out of the ice tomb, the trinket procced as my ghoul started to attack the tomb.

评论来自 1115938

I would post a comment, but I'm scared it might get downrated.

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